Blue confirms what I have said in many posts.

This is in reference to what I have stated in the past about guilds having established MT’s. I found it ironic to see a GC (GhostCrawler) post out there saying just about word for word what I had said in the past.

HERE is the entire post.

And here is the excerpt:

There are A LOT of warrior tanks. They are tanking every fight in Ulduar. If warriors were too low and if we buffed them, I don’t see how that would increase the numbers on the other tanks. I don’t think the conclusion to be drawn is that warriors are overpowered. I think the conclusion to be drawn is that warriors were the traditional tank and lot of established guilds have established MTs who see no reason to reroll the FotM.

I should say this however… Coming from a guild with a established warrior MT I would like to see them buffed ;)

That way I could DPS more… Tanking Hodir and Ignis makes my arm hurt… and then I am tired for tanking Thorim trash.

15 Responses to Blue confirms what I have said in many posts.

  • Aleanathem says:

    I’d have to agree tanking warriors do need a buff, but so do bears. Maybe Blizzard will find it in their heart to work some thing out for both. Sorry you have to tank so much. I’ve been straight dps since 3.1 hit outside of the rare night when only two of the regular tanks are online.

  • Jacemora says:

    The good thing about being equally geared and competent in both rolls is I always seem to a fill a need for a raid invite.

    What I dislike is that by taking away our high HP pools in the last nerf they really did take away the only niche we had left. Now there really is no reason to let the bear MT in most cases. It isn’t that way in my guild where letting people do different roles is commonplace but I know not all guilds are that nice with raid invites and roles for progression sake.

  • ARA says:

    Wow thats quite a statement, it’s already spawned a storm of controversy (GC doesnt care about balance, only cares about %age representation). Im not sure he meant that but still…

    I’m not sure bears need buffing. I did an iron council hard mode a couple of weeks back and I was on steelbreaker for the first 2 phases. They say this fight favors a DK, yet I survived easily with only 1 disc priest for heals. There’s no way our warrior or paladin could have done that, and we dont have a DK tank.

  • Stephi says:

    And to think, we’ve been MTing a lot of stuff with our pallies/bear.

    Since Laguna buggered off, we haven’t HAD a warrior MT… :P

  • Aleanathem says:

    Bears can do anything in normal mode, but when they get to hard modes you begin to notice the difference between a bear and another tank. I think bears need a serious aoe threat buff and either a health or armor buff. Savage Defense is more like a band aid for a large wound.

  • Katy says:

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  • ARA says:

    Dont know what bears your playing with Alean, but I’d say the precise opposite. AOE threat? you gotta be kidding we rock the aoe threat arena. I pull aoe threat off of paladins, and warriors/DKS do not stand a chance – swipe is just too powerful in my experience. I think your bear players are not that good, given what I’ve seen (of myself only, lol, but we have a lot of sucsess with me tanking, and I get an invite every night)

  • ARA says:

    ps. health or armor buff? You’ve gotta be kidding x2, I just saw that. If anything, we’re heading for a health nerf. Our health is still way too high, and scales too well, relative to the other tanks.

  • Jacemora says:

    @Stephi

    That’s just cause Celli is a slacker :P

    @ARA

    We still sacrifice too much avoidance and threat to get high HP pools. I can swap in STA gear (trinkets, polar, PvP) gemmed and enchanted for stamina and get to 52K easy enough but with crap dodge and not enough threat on a mobile fight like Ignis or Hodir. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying we need to get buffed, I can swap in avoidance tanking gear and hit 42K which is just as much as our warrior MT but with just a hokey version of block. Currently I tank every boss fight in some capacity and have often saved the raid from wipes at the loss of another tank and sometime that means having more than 1 thing beating on me at once.

    However, understand the original point and the one GC is making, even though we are very capable tanks at one point we were not and that is when all these warrior tanks became entrenched as MT’s in their respective guilds. I know a lot of people on my server that would prefer taking a bear tank as opposed to others especially with our pallyesque swipe ability. I don’t know about everyone else but with the right tanking gear on I am hitting 1K swipe crits every sec and I agro everything away from everybody without worrying about where I stand or anything else for that matter. The bottom line is there are a lot of warrior tanks compared to the other classes. What sucks is that because of this they are now the redheaded stephchild which is sort of ironic.

    @Al

    I can’t speak about hard modes but I would love to see savage defense gone and maybe have back our armor.

  • Aleanathem says:

    If you’re Stam stacking then yes you’ll have higher health than the other tanks. And we have to stam stack to tank almost any hard mode and most bosses in Uldaur. If our health gets nerfed Blizzard is stupid. Our health was the ONLY niche we had left and the only thing that keeps us alive. Hence why almost every feral tank is stacking stamina. In 3.1 Blizzard removed this niche making us a decent tank. All tanks should not be equal. It’s stupid. Each tank should have his area he excels at while he doesn’t in another. It’s like a checks and balances system. Yes, TBC pallies were basically solely trash tanks, but that assured them a spot in almost every run. Bear tanks took the big hits and brushed them off because of a massive health pool. This meant we were great for any fight like Bloodboil. Warriors were the best all around and could work on any fight, but didn’t equal paladins for aoe tanking or bears for high physical mitigation fights. That was great because most guilds I knew took one of each. Now with the “bring the player not the class”(stupidest idea ever) mentality all tanks must be equal. Trying to make all the tanks equal has either buffed or nerfed each tank. It was fine TBC. Why change it??? For ease of raiding? Most raiding guilds still recruit all four types of tanks.

    Our AoE threat is crap compared to any other tank(thunderclap is a better aoe than swipe). The only buff we’ve gotten was removing the positional requirement from Swipe. Swipe may be a bit OP for cats, but for bears it definitely is not. From tanking myself you must be getting a lot of Tricks of the Trade because our aoe threat without help is horrible. I’ve tanked hard mode Thorim in the arena. Even with the maul glyph and using Berserk on every cooldown I had threat issues. Hunters were kiting a mob most of the time between on another. I would say we need a small buff to our aoe tanking if they want all aoe tanking to be equal. I mean all tanks are supposed to be just good as the others for every fight(I’m dying laugh at this idea).
    /end rant

  • Jacemora says:

    @Al

    Maybe tricks is helping just that much and I do get it quite a bit.

    I will say that whenever I test the waters by ditching stam and wearing more avoidance gear I tend to die more. I don’t know if this is because my healers are used to the rhythm of healing me with a larger health pool or 42K HP is just not enough for bears when we are taking in big hits. I don’t tell my healers in fear they won’t like it that I am running more RNG than HP but I think for now at least in my guild and raids I am going to stick to stacking stam where I can unless I am tanking trash or OTing adds that don’t really require it.

  • ARA says:

    Well I agree thorims arena is intense, but its intense for any tank. Its supposed to be – thats the best part! You will always get the odd dps pulling off you, given at any time you could be tanking 6 mobs, most of whom you’ve only hit with a couple of swipes. If dps are very skilled, they’ll always take your target, but most of them are not, and anyways, its way too hectic to fuss about. As long as healers are on the ball, a hunter mob pull can be easily handled. Shockwave is appalling imo: when we tank trash, a warrior will SW & TC, yet I’ll rip all his mobs off him as soon as the SW stun has gone. I crit for 1.5k on swipe, and maul can crit (at a 40% rate) to 7k. That is just enormous aoe threat, especially if you tab target every 3 seconds to ensure maul is hitting all your mobs. I generally handle the hallway for thorim, and we’ve reached the hardmode timer without even trying at our current gear levels. Swipe, maul + 1 berserk is more than enough to keep our highest dpsers safe from harm in there. Arena-wise, I believe we’re actually the best tanks. No other tank has the mobile aoe capacity of swipe. So many time while doing the hallway, I’d hear our RL ask: why did you drop consecrate there? – all the mobs just ran right out of it. Swipe ofc doesnt suffer from that limitation.

    I too am stacking stam, not agility right now. But I keep the dialogue open with my healers. It depends so much on who’s healing me. Some of our healers are awesome, and some are not. You have to know the differences, and gear accordingly, based on how stable things have been in the past with a particular set of players. As we get confidence and gear, I’m able to use more agility/dps gear for the same encounter. However, now that we’ve done yogg and have started on hardmode progression, I’ll often play it safe and start with stamina gear. Hard modes are not as taxing on tanks as you might think. We’re stuggling because of generic scrubs in the raid, not because the bear tank keeps dying.

    Lastly, most of us agree druids can tank all hardmodes. I’m certainly going to be tanking all hardmodes, mainly because we dont have any DK tanks. Would DKs be better? Maybe, if they have the skills. The only offspec DK tank we have is terrible. Mechanical advantages in no way make up for his lack of skill. We’re trying to recruit a DK tank but have no success so far.

  • Jacemora says:

    Nice post ARA. Agree completely.

  • Aleanathem says:

    The best arena tank is a DK or Paladin by far. They both hold more AoE threat than any bear or warrior and will hold all the mobs while a bear tank will only hold some. Paladin threat is ridiculous to begin with right now. And about hard modes yes if you are the only option it’s fine to use a druid, but you will notice quite a difference and greater ease with one of the other tanks in hard modes. We don’t mitigate as much damage as any of the other tanks and it shows in hard modes.
    It comes down to what your guild has and mine has talented tanks all around so I just dps. Feral dps is much better right now than feral tanking. Even with the upcoming nerf I’d rather stick a feral dpsing than tanking. Just from what I’ve seen in clearing normal mode Ulduar and working on hard modes.

  • Jacemora says:

    Kitty right now is more OP than Bear, no doubt about that.

    I think different tanks in Thorim arena shine in different areas. Even a talented DK is going to have issues holding threat on multiple mobs compared to a Bear. Their rune system and AoE abilities are not the same as swipe spamming every GCD and tab targeting with a glyphed maul. This is especially true in such a mobile encounter as the arena. Pally consecrate is strong but again you have to give the nod to the more mobile bear. Warriors have a lot of abilities as well but also have to deal with the CD’s that we don’t have with maul/swipe.

    Having a pally or DK tank staying stationary in the arena in the center quite possibly would be better than the bear but on the perimeter the bear running around grabbing everything would rule supreme.

    I am going to say that depending on your raid comp, guild, and abilities of all those playing can easily change which tank will perform the best and that Blizzard really does have us close to being all the same.

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