Cataclysm Raiding Changes

So… if you have not heard there are changes coming to raiding in Cataclysm.

  1. The same gear will fall in 10 man and 25 man raids (exact same Ilvl and stats)
  2. 10 man raid bosses and 25 man raid bosses will share the same lockout. You can’t kill the same boss in both in the same week.
  3. 25 man raids will drop more items and reward more gold.
  4. Difficulty should be equal in both 10 man and 25.
  5. Progression is awarded for a boss kill only once and can be done so for either raid size.

To sum up, here is a blue quote… Overall, our goal is that you make the decision between whether to raid with 10 players or 25 players based on what you find fun and not because of the reward structure.

Of course there has already been a large amount of discussion on the subject, here is my 2 cents…

I like the whole idea of 10′s because you have a better chance of playing with the same people week in and out which improves the team as a whole. Now if your guild runs 3 10′s instead of 1 25 you might actually as a whole guild stay on pace with gearing up. That and you can have friendly competition within the guild between raids which could be fun.

I bet a lot of guilds ditch 25 honestly, even the better guilds are no where near some of the top world guilds cause they still carry at least a person or 2 in 25′s on any given night for whatever reason (connection, fps, stand in fire syndrome). Combine that as well with the better fps in 10′s and I think you see a lot of guilds switching it up at least in the beginning.

I would have thought Blizzard would at the very least kept special mounts (Mims Head for example) limited to 25′s… but if you really think about it that alone would still not make a difference. By the time a guild can farm Mims head they have moved on to another raid. So that alone is not a good enough reason to get 25 people to cast aside 10′s just so one… maybe 2 people in guild can get a special mount.

I think Blizzard will see more of what is already happening… dedicated 10′s and dedicated 25′s… the only difference is the difficulty in 10′s will not be from lesser gear and 25′s can’t dip into the 10′s pool and be successful from gear differences alone… a great change IMHO.

Couple this with little to no advantage in PvP from PvE gear with the new rated battlegrounds rewards and the changes to Resilience and it all makes sense.

Strong uber 25 man guilds will stay 25 to continue to compete with the same folks and against the same folks… this is more a Blizzard community thing than an in game thing. Other guilds not at the cutting edge of world progression will at least consider 10′s just to see if they can be more competitive in that bracket than they were in 25′s… or if anything else to have a friendly competition within the guild.

The bottom line is, if Blizzard can keep the difficulty the same across the 2 raid sizes, guilds should fair no better in progression than they do now… however, it might be easier to create a more successful synergy in 10′s in “non hard core” guilds which would lead to better progression.

If all guilds in Blizzard ditch 25′s… and are happy… you could see them doing away with larger raids altogether and sticking with 10′s going forward.

I guess people will now choose raiding sizes based on things like social factors and cpu performance than gear… I don’t see how that is a bad thing. Sure, if 24 of my best friends raided with me 3 nights a week without fail, my FPS was 60, and vent chatter with 25 was fun… I would raid 25′s… all things being the same why wouldn’t I? But if I only had 20 friends I could now be in a 10 progressing against my other friends 10 within the same guild and that in itself could be more fun than world or server progression.

Feel free to discuss more in comments…

2 Responses to Cataclysm Raiding Changes

  • Euripides says:

    Honestly, if Blizzard had wanted to do away with 25 man raiding, they would have done it. They’ve been indicating that they plan on adjusting their rewards per player slider so that 25 man is still attractive, despite the increased difficulties you’ve mentioned. The only question is how much.

    If they balance it so that multiple 10s are as good as a 25, strong 25 man guilds will not remain strong 25 man guilds, they’ll switch to the easier option with the same rewards. Preference for one format over another usually gives way when it comes to having to work harder for the same thing.

  • Aleanathem says:

    I think you will see the strongholds left of top 25 man guilds, but the regular 25 man guild will die out in favor of 10s. I see the next logical set for Blizzard is 5 man raiding. It’s the ultimate casual raiding experience. One many have asked for and I think will receive, but that’s my opinion.

    On my personal end I don’t find raiding fun anymore. It has been consistently beat down throughout Wrath. First there was the edition of hard modes and then they started gating. Pixels seem more important than challenges.

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